World of Tanks Update 9.22: Object 257 & Object 705 Armour Issues3 min read
World of Tanks Update 9.22 Common Test started yesterday and one of the good things about it is the fact more players can test and find possible bugs and errors. But what could be wrong?
Two of the upcoming Tier IX Russian heavy tanks have been reported to have problems with their armour: Object 705 and Object 257. While one seems to just an error that came from Supertest, the second is more of a case of its armour shape that will create massive problems.
Thanks to our friend from gamemodels3d.com were I able to confirm the problem was already on Supertest and for some reason made it to the Common Test. The problem? The stock turret is 300mm thick all around.
As you can confirm with the previous images, this was already on Supertest and because either no one noticed or Wargaming forgot to fix it, this made to the Common Test and if it makes it the Live Server, this will be a massive issue. Currently, if you go hull down, this tank alone can hold a flank and no one can penetrate him. Some areas of the turret can go up to 800mm thick, making this tank impossible to destroy when he is hull down and you got no weakspots, like the lower plate, exposed.
Hopefully, this will be fixed before Update 9.22 hits the Live Server.
The brand new Object 257 is coming to replace T-10 in the IS-7 branch, while the T-10 gets moved to a brand new mini-branch. While I do agree with the change, as Obj.257 is a more logical successor to the IS-3 and keeps the branch gameplay the same, it’s armour will be a problem if introduced in the game as it is now.
Circonflexes published a video where he explains the reasons why Object 257 armour is a problem: it’s V-shaped. I highly recommend you watching it.
With its thick armour and V-shaped armour, Object 257 can bounce shells like no other tank and it’s almost impossible to be destroyed by lower tier tanks. If the vehicle is introduced to the game on the current state, it might become a game-breaking vehicle. Object 252U, also know as Defender, has a very similar armour shape and is currently considered overpowered for it’s Tier, Object 257 takes what is good on Object 252U and takes it to the extreme.
In my opinion, Wargaming has two options to fix this issue: They don’t introduce Object 257 in Update 9.22 and find a better replacement for it. Or, nerf several areas of its armour in order to give lower tier tanks a chance to fight back. But what areas?
- The lower plate, with its 140mm and very small size it’s almost impossible for some Tier VII and VIII to penetrate it.
- The side armour, with 140mm and 30mm spaced armour it’s just too strong and leads players to the wrong idea the armour is flat. The armour should be modelled with the same shape but without 30mm spaced armour and with overall lower thickness value.
- The turret side armour, the rear area, should also be nerfed to lower values. Currently has between 240-160mm and its way to strong for lower tiers to stand a chance and penetrate it.
I strongly believe that with these changes, Wargaming would be able to keep Object 257 in the game. Personally I would love to see this tank in the game, but not in it’s current form.
15,466 thoughts on “World of Tanks Update 9.22: Object 257 & Object 705 Armour Issues”
I don’t really get comparison between Defender and Object 257. They don’t have similiar armor shape at all. Side of Defender is completely flat. Something like Object 907 would be much better comparison.
Object 252U/Defender hull isn’t exactly V shaped but looking at it from below you’ll see it also has some extreme angles which however only cover a minor part of the lowest hull. the major part remains flat.
i am not in general against the V shape hulls. it adds some variety in design but this cannot go at the expense of balance. therefore more considerations in balancing Obj. 257 are required.
In my opinion the 257’s armor is not as overpowered as it seems… The front lower plate is big enough to get shot with ease and will be penetrable by most tier 8 tanks if not angled enough, though if you DO angle it you’re making your upper front armor weaker and the most effective you can make it is ~205mm effective armor. NOTE: Tanks with APCR as standard will struggle more with the armor than tanks with AP as standard because of the difference in the shells’ normalization of penetration angles, I compared the frontal armor thickness of the 257 with itself and the IS-3 firing at the lower plate at a straight angle, here’s where the armor seems thicker if you don’t put a comparison tank in the equation: the effective thickness with APCR shooting at it is roughly 200mm, whereas the effective thickness with AP shooting at it is roughly 190mm, making it penetrable even to some tier 7 tanks with high pen such as the T29 or AMX M4 45(lol) 50% of the time.
My point is; shoot this thing in the front! (or rear ofc) if he angles, aim at the flatter front armor, you WILL penetrate 50/70% of the depending on your penetration if you shoot the correct spot, avoid shooting anything but HE at the angled side, if you find the flat side of the tank, shoot the upper hull armor, it will have the same effective thickness as the lower plate at that point, but ONLY at that point, even the slightest bit of angling of the side makes it suddenly very hard to pen. The tank cannot the detracked and damaged at the same time unless shooting UP at the tracks on hilly terrain, which gives the tank a unique trait much like the top tier Japanese super-heavies and the Maus, which may I add, have the same side armor in the sense of having too much spaced armor to penetrate the lower part of the side, while the upper part of the side armor is penetrable at a flat angle.
Treat the 257 as a superheavy, a fast one, with relatively ‘weak’ frontal armor.
P:S: the hatches on top of the turret are small but will be penetrated easily, only 150mm thick, and if you have a taller tank just shoot the roof.
Mistake in 1st paragraph: meant 205mm effective armor as both the lower and upper plate when angled, at and angle when they’re both the same effective thickness. The upper front is 270mm effective when facing straight at you.
In my honest opinion, the Russian tech tree really doesn’t need any more heavy tanks….
257 is not OP, just broken. As you said the armor head on is more or less as weak as the T-10. And easy for most to deal with. It even has the weak line above the gun like the IS-3 has. Only it’s 30mm thick, vs 25. So most high caliber guns can overmatch that if they aim there. Or Type 4/5 derps to get a high roll.
Issue tho is only the side armor. They need to tone down the angle on it. Make it less then 60 and it’s fine. As atm of you aim to low, the 183 can’t even overmatch it with AP. And you can still bounce even if he comes over a ridge line for the second issue it has. Hidden hitboxes behind the tracks. As you can see the armor clear as day, but you still can’t hit it. If they fix those two things. As in reduce the V shape angle and remove the hidden hitboxes. It’s fine tbh.
“In my honest opinion, the Russian tech tree really doesn’t need any more tanks….”
There fixed it for ya, but seriously there are lines that deserve WAY more attention, (as well as START bloody balancing your entire game, like tier 9/10 is reasonably balanced, but tier 8 has a load of tanks that are almost tier 9 good, but also tanks that are worse than some tier 7s… And the lower in tier you go the worse it gets pretty much…)
Comparison was frontally, should have said that, sorry. If you compare 257 with 252 frontally, they are almost identical. V shaped hull is better compared with T-22.
Alright I get that. I believe all the fuss is about 257’s side armor so I though that was also what you were refering to as well. Especially considering front of Defender is way better even though it’s tier lower.
They could just reduce the 140mm thick upper side to like 100mm and that would be better.
It’s a mobile tank, detracking and dealing damage would be great but that’s exactly what makes it special.
Can I just keep my T-10 please? or are wargaming determined to steal its crew and xp.
You know, going off the wiki, the USSR has 107 vehicles, whilst Germany has 109. So I am confused, why is it only the USSR people complain has too many, but never Germany?
“The brand new Object 257 is coming to replace T-10 in the IS-7 branch, while the T-10 gets moved to a brand new mini-branch.”
Here is the issue for Tier 7’s. Tier 7 and 6 are getting killed over these new changes that WG is doing. Why? Every patch over the last while has been a “Rebalance 2.0” that routinely buffed, or rebalanced, tiers 8,9 and 10. As those tiers got buffed with better pens, engines, guns, hull armour, turret armour etc… Tier 6 and 7 kept getting weaker and weaker. Caernavon/Centurion changes are one good example.
Yes, but they’re taking my crew and xp off the T-10 and putting it into the Obj. 257.
Why is noone talking about the problem with the new medium Tank?
Object 430U has similar Armor to the new 705A… You can play those two tanks almost identically.
both tanks can sidescrape AND fail at it when overangling
frontplate is to strong for most tier X tanks on both vehicles
lowerplate is the only real weakspot on both vehicles (430U a little bit more)
turret is even better on 430U
That shouldnt be possible for a medium i think…
plz check and make this more public if you see the problem as well
Cuz Russian bias thing, I guess.
Because you don’t have the IS-7 maybe?
This whole patch is a fvcking joke. Feels like they are changing things for no reason, it also feels like they are rushing this patch out as fast as they can. None of these tanks are even close to being balanced. Though the ISM is fairly okay. Should get a slight lower plate nerf.
Why are they over buffing these tanks, not even slightly. They are waaaay too powerful with no real weak points. It’s pathetic Russian bull**** as always. This patch can not go live, this will piss so many people off including me.
Their balancing department sucks. Buff the pz7, E100, E50M turret And dpm, tiger 1/2, there are too many neglected tanks, mostly german(for some fking reason, maybe antigerman? Who knows)
They need to cancel this patch, go back to the drawing board, put down the vodka and hire staff that have a fvcking idea what they are doing.
The problem is that they’re buffing tanks so heavily that you’ll be forced to fire all premium Judy to reliably penetrate. The game is laughably pay2win nowadays. Compare to three years ago and the difference is staggering in how much prem you have to shoot.
On mobile with the post. Feckin autocorrect…
…how does “shells” get corrected to “Judy”? xD
Just turn it off.
clones, where the German lines does have a couple of clones, the Russian lines as a lot of more and if you count Prem tanks there are a **** ton of clones
People seriously think this isn’t broken? The T-22 has a similar hull shape and in order to get that thing near balanced they had to nerf that things gun down handling and dpm to the point where it’s similar or worse than most T9 guns.
Read my post above, the front hull is rather weak at certain angles, straight on, shoot LFP. Angling, shoot upper hull facing you, it’s not as strong as the IS-7’s armor.
The thing is though, I was never especially interested in the IS-7, I got the T-10 because I found its gameplay style interesting, and because I heard that there might be a new tier X soon more like the T-10. But then they take my crew and xp, unless I can get the IS-7 before February, which is never going to happen.
You mean hiring a bunch of Wehraboos who go on and on about “SUPERIOR GERMAN TECHNOLOGY!” ?
The reason they are buffing armour is BECAUSE of premium ammo, people kept firing more and more premium, so as they don’t want to lose out on profits, they buff armour instead of nerfing or changing premium.
Even better IDEA! LEave the T-10 in the line!!!! WG cmon.
No it’s not special, it’s broken. Let me put this way, if this thing has 1 mm of frontal armour it’s still op af just because how it can reserve side scrape every time at extreme angles and you cannot do anything about it other than firing HE at it. If it didn’t have that kind of side armour you can tweak whatever specs to make it balanced. But in its current form, this tank is broken.
The only thing is has is armour and even then it’s not alot of base armour so it will be almost useless in tier 9 and 10 games, then u get to the gun stats which are hopelessly bad. The argument that lower tier tanks have no hope of doing anything to it won’t make a difference just look at the recent new tanks. I think it gives the vast majority of WoT players the opportunity to play with the v-shaped hull and more importantly deal with those kind of tanks and eventually ppl will learn to deal with it.
The really broken new tanks are at tier 10, look at the new TD and the new med they both have ridiculous armour.
If they are determined to put the 257 into the game, then why not put it at tier X and move IS7 to tier 9.
Dear Harkonnen. We learned that the lower tier tanks in a given battle just are not supposed to fight the top tier tanks at all. That is why there are either 5 or 7 of them in the game. The lower tier tanks are supposed to fight against the lower tier tanks. WarGaming logic, yo.
no, just no…. it really doesnt fit there and i really hope that we will get a t10 tank behind it that fits with 9.23/1.0
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